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I occasionally wonder if Leif isn't what "they" refer to as a "spirited child".

He's really a pretty "well behaved" child. He shares better than most toddlers. He's gentle with other kids. He doesn't really throw tantrums. He helps clean up, and is cooperative about going to bed and most other things.

He's just active. At restaurants, he's the only kid who won't just sit quietly in his high chair. At library story time, he's the one who won't sit still.

I don't know if he's more active than normal, or if we're just less restrictive than most parents, or if parents of more active kids simply aren't crazy enough to try to take their child to story time and other public places.

(And yes, it is the story time intended for children his age. When I mention that he doesn't do well in story time, the first comment is usually "Isn't he a little young for that?" Actually, he's generally smack dab in the middle of the age range.)

I'm afraid I just started a flame war on a mailing list. Someone is planning to have a natural birth, and another posted (paraphrased), "Good for you, but don't get upset if things don't go as planned, and just go with the flow." I'm afraid I went off a little extremely, but it hit on a number of sore points for me. 1. I realize they're probably trying to be supportive without pressure, but saying "Don't be upset if you fail" is undermining confidence, not supporting. 2. Moms should not feel that they are doing something wrong if they are upset about things that didn't go as planned during birth. It's perfectly legitimate to be upset. 3. Going with the flow is a good way to end up with things not going the way you want them to if your health care provider does not happen to share your views on birth.

But this is a list which is suffering from a severe case of close-knittedness (most of us have been members for at least 5 years, and it's been...oh... probably two years since a new member has joined), and for the past year or so dissenting opinions have been actively avoided. So I feel like I'm stirring a hornets' nest by daring to say that I don't like what someone is saying.

For those of you from Coronado - Village Donuts closed. They're apparently going to put in a Henry's Marketplace (natural/organic grocery store, apparently now owned by Wild Oats), which is very cool, but couldn't they have replaced Von's or Albertson's instead of Village Donuts? Where are we supposed to go for coffee at 3AM now?

Not that I'm drinking much 3AM coffee these days...

Date: 2005-02-12 07:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] savia.livejournal.com
re: the natural birth thing, I think what the person probably meant was that if they wanted a natural birth, but there are complications, or it's more painful than they expected and they end up wanting an epidural, or what have you, they shouldn't feel guilty about changing things midstream. There's a lot of pressure on women in the natural childbirth community to stay natural no matter what, or putting guilt on people who end up wanting epidurals. My best friend faced that a lot, and ended up losing friends over it, because they didn't agree with some of her reliance on more modern conventions. One particularly rabid friend of hers got upset because she was birthing in a hospital at all - but my friend has heart issues that make it a necessity. It was only on her third child that she was able to give herself permission to have an epidural if she felt she needed it (in the end, she asked for it when the major labor hit, but there was no time, because the baby came almost immediately).

I mean, when I finally have kids, I'd love to have a home water birth with a midwife and a doula, but who knows what it'll actually end up being like. I might end up really wanting to go to the hospital and have lots of painkillers. heh.

Date: 2005-02-12 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] therealocelot.livejournal.com
I can totally see this perspective, and I think I was trying to address it (though awkwardly) in my post.

If this was her intention, her wording was really bad, though :) Especially considering that the mom having the baby doesn't actually have any ideological problems with epidurals (so presumably less or no guilt issues involved) - she's just had bad experiences with similar procedures in the past and fears the potential side effects more than the pain of labor.

Sometime during the night she responded saying that she agreed with me, she'd been wrong, and to ignore her previous post.

Date: 2005-02-12 07:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tangodiva.livejournal.com
If village donuts is where I think it is then it is kind of funny. I can vaguely remember that when they first built that it was a natural foods store (windmill farms?) so it has come full circle.

Van is an active child too. Your description fits him to a tee. However we fit in to our storytime pretty well (there are as many kids wandering around there as there are sitting down)

Date: 2005-02-12 04:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] therealocelot.livejournal.com
It's on Orange, between 1st and 2nd. I have no memories of it being anything but a donut shop, but you presumably have about five years more of memories than I do :) Looking at the architecture of the building, I can see it having been designed as a natural food store.

Date: 2005-02-12 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] murphymom.livejournal.com
Having raised a few "spirited" children myself, I'd say Leif fits the description. My first two were always fascinated by the spoken word, so would sit raptly in storytime, and loved to be read to sleep at night. The younger two had no patience for that - they always wanted to "see the pictures", even when I had shown them there weren't any in the particular book, and would most likely have wanted to be off exploring if I'd taken them to story time. I'll bet Leif will really take to the interactive types of activities and books.

Date: 2005-02-12 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] koyote.livejournal.com
Leif doesn't even always want to see the pictures. He wants to explore. And pillage.

He's nice about it, but he's just not raised (I'm a bit more extreme than therealocelot in my views) to sit down and be quiet. :)

Leif likes interactive activities some, but he's often happier doing his own thing. I watch it, it's obvious he wants to go 'make friends' with every toddler he meets- and every child. But he doesn't stick with it much and ends up doing his own self-play a lot

Date: 2005-02-12 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] koyote.livejournal.com
Most of the questions I hear (granted, I'm not much for story time) are indeed , "isn't he a little young for that?"

BUt they generally are referring to things like playing with golden retreivers, climbing ladders, going down slides, and sutch.

I'm not sure Leif is so much a 'spirited' child as he is just a free child. We are very carefully non restrictive in almost all possible ways. Not that we let him play with lit stove burners or anything, but we definitely try to keep no to a minimum.

I also think he throws fewer fits and cries less because we try to understand what he is communicating- and he definitely communicates- and because we try to look ahead a bit. I've seen a lot of parents who take their similarly aged children to playgrounds and then spend the whole time stressing because the child wants to USE the playground equipment! Same thing with restaurants. Most crying jags I've seen are from wanting cuddles, or wanting to see the fish tank, or whatever. I just can't see the point to locking a toddler in a high chair when this is the case.

FUCK!

Date: 2005-02-14 08:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hideousallusion.livejournal.com
I am DEEEEEEPLY wounded by this news. I thought the Henry's deal didn't go through. Now I will have NOWHERE to go when I've been out at the 1st and Orange area and want grease in my belly.

_weeping_

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