(no subject)

[ocelot]

The party went well. The number who showed up was just about perfect, given the space we have. Much fun was had, and we'll be subsisting off of hummus and tatziki for the next week or so. We got to meet essara_lemuroid and family, which was nice, as we aren't really friends with many parents around here.

I have a new icon. Yay.

Leif has started getting really grabby and possessive in the past few days. I know part of it is just his age, but it's a little distressing seeing other kids treat Leif that way, and then having him immediately turn around and do the same thing (the main episodes of grabbiness were over the chalk, and earlier that day he'd had crayons taken away from him by their owner).

It's hard to know what to do when it comes to the other kids. We can get Leif to share, but we can't force other kids to behave a certain way, and Leif's too young to understand why we want him to act differently.

Speaking of disturbing, it's interesting seeing how suggestible he is when watching movies. His Wiggles movie has a song about having a drink of water, and he very frequently asks for a drink of water during that song.

Thankfully, they don't really "advertise" much in that particular movie beyond water, bananas, and vegetables.

Leif says "No" in the most adorable manner. He has an amazingly cute voice when he chooses to use it. "No" is especially cute for some reason.

Was reading through a parenting community, and found one post about a parent who had been seen verbally abusing her kid, saying (and forcing him to say) how he had been a huge mistake and ruined her life. People expressed proper horror. A bit further back, there was a post asking what people would do if their 13 year old daughter got pregnant. A lot of people said something along the lines of "If she chose to keep the baby, that's the end of her social life. I'm not providing free babysitting."

Isn't that the kind of attitude that can lead to that sort of situation? I understand not wanting to be the de facto parent... but if the baby had come at a more socially acceptable time, I imagine the grandparents would be falling all over themselves to watch the baby from time to time so the mom could do something social.

I also imagine that if the parents had another baby when the child was 13, the child would be expected to babysit and otherwise care for the baby on a regular basis.

Comments

[silkensteel.livejournal.com]

Hmm. While I don't see the pregnant 13 year old happening, there's no denying the basic physical potential of it.

I think I'd be somewhere between doting grandparent and knuckling down on the "mom." Schooling would not be allowed to suffer, and social things would be reduced just because babies suck out your brain. Either include the baby (and grandparent, most likely) or combine social with practical. At the moment I like to think I would rather be practical than vindictive.

And thank you - the party was lovely. Mariel's social development is coming in, she and Deb seem sort of grabby/posessive about their stuff, however more open to suggestion and reason than Leif. It *is* normal, he's less aggressive about it than most babies and the best way to handle it now is... well, I dunno. We all just coped in our special way until it passed.

As for the parent being abusive - I'm less likely to hold my tongue in those situations. "Excuse me, did your parents make *you* tell the world you were a worthless piece of shit too?"

[dempcat.livejournal.com]

A girl I went to middle school with actually did get pregnant. It was very surreal.

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

Schooling would not be allowed to suffer, and social things would be reduced just because babies suck out your brain.

The idea of personal time being cut out entirely is just one of my hot buttons. People, including 13 year old moms, need balance. The long-term goal should be to get the child to be as good a parent as s/he can, and that isn't going to be accomplished by forcing every minute of the day to be school, work, or baby.

Going out every day or to parties every weekend? No. But I expect I'd be available for free babysitting at least a few hours a week, especially if she wanted to pursue a specific interest (martial arts class or whatnot).

[geminigirl]

I'm not so sure on the grandparent thing. I know my Mom has made it very clear that she's not interested in being the babysitter unless it's either an emergency, or a well planned event. Her parents were the same way...I stayed with them for the birth of my younger sister and brother, and maybe three or four other times. That's not to say they didn't love me, nor spend lots of time with me...they just weren't the people we turned to for babysitting.

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

You're right - it isn't true in all cases. But it does seem to be generally true that parents of teen parents are a lot less interested in providing support that they would happily provide at a later time.

Of course, they're generally being relied on more heavily as well (both financially and in terms of demands on their time) than they would if their kid was out of the house.

[dempcat.livejournal.com]

Seems to me that when you sign up to be a parent, there aren't any opt-out clauses. You don't get to stop taking care of your child just because she develops a drug addiction, drops out of school, has a baby, gets arrested. And if she's 13, then where the heck were you when all this happened, anyways? Can you really blame it all on her?

If the daughter died, surely the grandparents would take in the baby. And if the daughter had a debilitating disease, surely the parents would sacrifice time in their lives to be her caretaker. The only difference between those scenarios and the original is that these fall under the category of Not Her Fault while the original is Her Fault. But just because something is Her Fault or Your Fault or Our Fault or Their Fault doesn't make it any less impossible to deal with alone.

I guess the parents might think they're teaching their daughter a lesson with their refusal to babysit, but really, isn't having a child when you're 13 lesson enough?

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

Seems to me that when you sign up to be a parent, there aren't any opt-out clauses.

Yeah, that's my view, too. If my kid gets pregnant (or gets someone else pregnant) at 13, I'm partially responsible. My job at that point includes helping her become the best parent possible, which includes helping her find balance in her life.

I guess the parents might think they're teaching their daughter a lesson with their refusal to babysit

Yeah. I hear a lot of pregnant teens whose parents refuse to let them have a baby shower because they don't want to reward them. Bah. The purpose of a baby shower isn't to reward the parents (or at least it wasn't originally) - it's to help a little with the initial expenses. Yeah, lets take away all help (whether material, emotional, or whatever) from the people who need the support most. And then complain that they're crappy parents!

[dempcat.livejournal.com]

It's funny how many of the icons on this thread are cats.

I think on a spectrum of vindictive to compassionate, the America I know, as a whole, leans towards vindictive. I think it's part and parcel of capitalism. It's built on the premise that if you try hard, you'll do well and that everything you have, you've earned. That makes it easier to say a homeless guy is just lazy than to say he's down on his luck, because that means you could be down on your luck someday, no matter how hard you've worked, or it could even mean that you're up on your luck, and so some of what you have you you got by chance, and are not entitled to hoard.

So bringing that back around to teenage pregnancy, I see a lot of that "give them what they (negatively) deserve" in place of "give them what they (positively) need".

/rant

[silkensteel.livejournal.com]

"I think on a spectrum of vindictive to compassionate, the America I know, as a whole, leans towards vindictive. I think it's part and parcel of capitalism."

My mom has that vindictive streak in her, but not to extremes. I think a lot of the vindictive reaction to "your teen's pregnant" was influenced by the 20th century's tendency to see it as Shameful.

[jtersesk.livejournal.com]

*waves* Hey, saw you on dot_sex_snark, loved your ocelot icon, and wandered on over. I'm a Jessica too *points to userinfo*.

Hope you don't mind if I friend you. You seem interesting and entertaining to read. Also, your son is absolutely adorable. :)

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

Nice to meet you. I'm flattered :)

verbal abuse

[essara-lemuroid.livejournal.com]

"one post about a parent who had been seen verbally abusing her kid, saying (and forcing him to say) how he had been a huge mistake and ruined her life. People expressed proper horror."

some people just suck. This quote reminded me of my half brother, 18 years younger than me, whose mom (my stepmom) tells him all the time what an awful kid he is. Like when he was trying to help her put the dishes into the dishwasher, and he dropped one by accident. She yelled at him something like "look at what you did! You'll never amount to anything!". The plate didn't even break, not that that matters. He has major issues, wouldn't let us take his picture when he visited at age 9 because "I look so bad".